full rgb does not work on a full rgb tv

Discus and support full rgb does not work on a full rgb tv in XBoX on Consoles to solve the problem; Hi, i've got a new Sony 55 W905 TV. I've set both the HDMI input of the tv and the Xbox One to full rgb. But full rgb is not working. When performing... Discussion in 'XBoX on Consoles' started by Bert Sachs, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. Bert Sachs
    Bert Sachs Guest

    full rgb does not work on a full rgb tv


    Hi,

    i've got a new Sony 55 W905 TV. I've set both the HDMI input of the tv and the Xbox One to full rgb. But full rgb is not working. When performing the display calibration app, i've never see the black closed eye. Regardless if i set brightness to max or whatever.

    nehW .

    :)
     
    Bert Sachs, Mar 29, 2014
    #1
  2. JTF195
    JTF195 Guest
    Display Calibration and RGB, black levels

    All of you are correct in describing how RGB Full and RGB Limited are SUPPOSED to work.

    On every device I own EXCEPT the Xbox 360 and Xbox One, the options for RGB Limited and RGB Full DO work this way.

    On the Xbox 360 and Xbox One, however, the RGB Limited option outputs RGB Full, and the RGB Full option is completely broken.
     
    JTF195, Mar 29, 2014
    #2
  3. JTF195
    JTF195 Guest
    Display Calibration and RGB, black levels

    As of the most recent Xbox 360 and Xbox One updates, the problem is still not fixed.

    I have my TV calibrated and configured properly. I have tested it with my both my PS3 and PC set to RGB Full and RGB Limited, and my Wii U (which outputs RGB Limited)

    It works perfectly with all 3 devices.

    On both the Xbox 360 and Xbox One, however, the output from the both the RGB Full and RGB limited options have 16 levels of black crushing and 16 levels of white crushing when the TV is set to the corresponding mode, and only look normal when the TV is set
    to RGB Full, and the Xbox is set to RGB Limited.

    I don't have recording equipment, but others have recorded output and tested the black levels in photoshop to verify this issue.

    Essentially the problem breaks down as follows:

    Black Levels

    15-239

    - PS RGB Limited option, Wii U, PC RGB Limited output

    0-255

    - Xbox RGB Limited option, PS RGB Full option, PC RGB Full output

    (-16)-271 (values out of range by 16 levels)

    - Incorrect Xbox RGB Full option
     
    JTF195, Mar 29, 2014
    #3
  4. Bert Sachs
    Bert Sachs Guest

    full rgb does not work on a full rgb tv

    I really hope that the problem is known and Microsoft fixes the bug asap. My TV definitely supports full rgb and if have set the HDMI input to full rgb. I can simply not see the big black closed eye. There are many people on the internet that share the same
    problem. Anyone has the same problem?
     
    Bert Sachs, May 7, 2014
    #4
  5. Bert Sachs Win User

    full rgb does not work on a full rgb tv

    I really hope that the problem is known and Microsoft fixes the bug asap. My TV definitely supports full rgb and if have set the HDMI input to full rgb. I can simply not see the big black closed eye. There are many people on the internet that share the same
    problem. Anyone has the same problem?
  6. JTF195 Win User

    Display Calibration and RGB, black levels

    All of you are correct in describing how RGB Full and RGB Limited are SUPPOSED to work.

    On every device I own EXCEPT the Xbox 360 and Xbox One, the options for RGB Limited and RGB Full DO work this way.

    On the Xbox 360 and Xbox One, however, the RGB Limited option outputs RGB Full, and the RGB Full option is completely broken.
  7. JTF195 Win User

    Display Calibration and RGB, black levels

    As of the most recent Xbox 360 and Xbox One updates, the problem is still not fixed.

    I have my TV calibrated and configured properly. I have tested it with my both my PS3 and PC set to RGB Full and RGB Limited, and my Wii U (which outputs RGB Limited)

    It works perfectly with all 3 devices.

    On both the Xbox 360 and Xbox One, however, the output from the both the RGB Full and RGB limited options have 16 levels of black crushing and 16 levels of white crushing when the TV is set to the corresponding mode, and only look normal when the TV is set
    to RGB Full, and the Xbox is set to RGB Limited.

    I don't have recording equipment, but others have recorded output and tested the black levels in photoshop to verify this issue.

    Essentially the problem breaks down as follows:

    Black Levels

    15-239

    - PS RGB Limited option, Wii U, PC RGB Limited output

    0-255

    - Xbox RGB Limited option, PS RGB Full option, PC RGB Full output

    (-16)-271 (values out of range by 16 levels)

    - Incorrect Xbox RGB Full option
  8. oryan_dunn Win User

    Display Calibration and RGB, black levels

    A long post follows....

    RGB TV / RGB Limited means content is mastered at 16 = black and 235 = white.

    RGB PC / RGB Full means content is mastered at 0 = black and 255 = white.

    No matter what settings you select in your TV or the XB1, when a source outputs RGB, it sends 8bits (0-255) per channel (unless you select a higher bit depth, but that's for a different discussion).

    If you have a source that is outputting RGB Limited for RGB Limited and your TV is set to RGB Limited, the TV should be calibrated so that 16 = black and 235 = white. The way this is usually done is through calibration patterns that have information below
    16 or above 235, also known as blacker than black or whiter than white. For the XB1, this is the top/bottom black/white bars and the closed eye and sun in the built in calibration program. When a display chain such as this is calibrated properly, you're
    not supposed to see the closed eye or the sun, and the top two and bottom two bars should look the same color. If you can see the closed eye or sun, then the display is to bright and/or to contrast-y.

    If you have a source that is outputting RGB Full and your TV is set to RGB Full, the TV should be calibrated so that 0 = black and 255 = white. Here is where the confusion starts. To properly expand content mastered for RGB Limited (most all TV and movies,
    and likely other content as well), the device accepting the RGB Limited content and outputting RGB Full is responsible for expanding this properly. That necessarily means clipping below black and above white. For 8 bit RGB, you can't send higher than 255,
    and there are no negative RGB values. In this case, no matter how bright you set your TV, you'll never see the closed eye. It's impossible to see blacker than black on RGB full showing content mastered for RGB Limited. If you are seeing below black or above
    white, then that means the program expanding the RGB Limited mastered content is not expanding properly.

    Now, with that said, I think there are some issues. I have no knowledge other than my hunches about how the XB1 works. My hunch is that it either treats all apps as having content mastered for RGB Limited and applies the expansion to all games/apps/movies/etc.
    Or, the game/app can tell the system that it's content is RGB Limited or RGB Full so the XB1 can expand/not expand as necessary. If it's the latter option, then I think apps like IE don't properly advertise their content is RGB full. Also, apps like the
    Media Player photo viewer should be RGB Full, while the video player in the Media Player app should be RGB Limited. That's why when you set the XB1 to RGB TV and your display to RGB Full, photos and content on IE look right, because you're basically turning
    off the RGB Limited -> RGB Full expander. But, that only fixes RGB Full content. When you do that, anything mastered for RGB Limited will look very washed out. I've read where most developers target RGB Limited, so I'm wondering if the XB1 just assumes
    all content is RGB Limited and expands carte blanche. If that's the case, then it seems like the "fix" is to allow an app to tell the system if it's content is RGB Limited or RGB Full so the XB1 can properly apply the 16-235 -> 0-255 expander.

    So, if you see games that look "more correct" when the XB1 is set to RGB TV and your display is set to RGB Full, then I suspect the game has been mastered to RGB Full and the XB1 is normally incorrectly applying the RGB expander. With the XB1 set to RGB
    TV and your display set to RGB Limited or the XB1 set to RGB PC and your display set to RGB Full, you'd be crushing blacks/whites, and I suspect this is what most people are seeing. The developers have "worked around" the issue by mastering games to RGB Limited,
    which for people with displays that accept RGB Full result in a slightly reduced number of total available colors.
  9. RedEye Expr3ss Win User

    I gave in

    Also, I forgot to mention that in Full RGB it looks amazing. I think most tv's can handle Full rgb now in 2013? Anyway, it works well for me and playing COD is loads better then it was on the 360.
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full rgb does not work on a full rgb tv

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